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Kids in Church

Today I was in church watching the kids sitting there in their seats. Forced to go by their parents, they showed no interest at all in the proceedings around them, be it the sermon, notices, or the worship and singing. It seemed to me that they were really only enduring their time in the seat until it was over and they could once again be free to play and have fun.

This brought me to thinking about the service of a church and many other aspects of it. But to stay on topic, I started to ask myself why it was that the kids were just not interested. I also started asking if the adults were any more interested in the whole proceedings or if they too were enduring it all out of a religious duty or some other motivation not related to the proceedings.

So where is this power that Christians had? This authority? This essence of a life that shows God is real? Why is church such a show? It has been very few times that I have entered a church and felt the presence of God there. When that presence was there, even when I was completely exhausted I remained attentive and interested in everything. It felt like I was drinking in the atmosphere around me. Most of the times that I am in church it feels dry and painful. Many times I am relieved when it is over. How can this be? Why is it so bad?

If there is no reality then the kids are not going to be interested. Sure, they may end up “Churchified” and good religious people, but that has nothing to do with God. It is time that we started to return to the truth of life with Christ. That we started living and obeying God in such a way as to be in His presence. Otherwise our testimony as a church holds no strength at all, but instead starts to turn people away from Christ.

The Bible says that if we disobey God, if we have sin in our lives, if we are proud and selfish amongst other things, then God will distance Himself from us. Could this be the problem with chuch today? If God was present in the church… really present in the church, then it would show up not only amongst the adults, but also amongst the kids too.

Kids in church… they tell you a lot.

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Christian Warriors – Or Not

Listening to a seminar today, in the conference that I am currently part of, I heard part of the testimony of a communist warrior who lived in the jungles of South America, fighting for his cause. Converted to Christ, he was unable to return to his group for fear of them now killing him, and could not go near the populated areas for fear of someone recognizing him as the head of this group and turning him over to the authorities. As a result, he could only remain in the jungle, alone.

This was how he spent his first month as a Christian, and since somebody had given him a Bible he read it all day and night, using candles to light the words, during the entire time. Suspended in a hammock high amongst the trees, he simply read, and prayed, for that first month.

Over this time of reading, of discovering the life of Jesus and his disciples, of seeing how strongly these guys held their values and beliefs, this converted warrior started to build up an idea of what this Christian church must be like. He started to conjure up images of a valiant and brave church, filled with warriors. Anxious to meet some of these amazing Christian warriors that he could imagine based on what he had read in the Bible, this ex-warrior jumped at the first opportunity that he was able to visit a church.

Entering the church building, he closed his eyes, just wanting to take in the atmosphere and the amazing environment into which he was entering. They were all singing a warring song, something similar to “Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching as to War.” This was similar to some of the communist war songs that he had been used to singing only one month earlier.

But it wasn’t long before the current state of the church started to become obvious. Apathy, laziness, discontent, judging, and more all started to loom up and show itself. This was certainly not the church that he was expecting. All of these things that the Bible asks of us, he had already lived. Self-denial was part of the communist lifestyle, as was sharing and giving to the others so that they too would have. Love had never come into the equation as a communist, but many of the principles from the Bible were present, including a commitment to the point of death. Now, here in the church, there seemed to be little of this commitment, nor much else.

It was so very different from what he had ever imagined.

It is really disappointing when somebody enters the church to find it in such a state of disarray. A quote I heard once sounds something like, “the problem with Christianity… is the christians,” meaning that many have the name but not the form nor lifestyle of a “Little Christ” as the name implies. If you are part of the church, it certainly makes you think.

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Looking at True Riches

Jim Baker (on video) teaching students at a bible college in the United States started teaching on Revelations but was sidetracked down this issue of True Riches. What follows is my brief notes on what he had to say, based entirely out of scriptures in the Bible.

1 Cor 13:1-13
(1) Though I speak with the tongues of men and or angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal (2) and though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (3) And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

(4) Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; (5) does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; (6) does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; (7) bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

(8) Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. (9) For we know in part and we prophesy in part. (10) But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. (11) When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. (12) For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

(13) And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

It is not by works, it is our relationship with God.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 12:24
Unless a [seed] falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone;

That’s why we are lonely… You have to die daily!

Matt 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

Mark 10:17-25
(17) Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” (18) So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. (19) You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ” (20) And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.” (21) Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.” (22) But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. (23) Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” (24) And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! (25) It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

I used to teach that the eye of the needle was a gate in Jerusalem that was so low the camels had to kneel down and crawl under. That is not true. The eye of the needle is just that. Anything is possible with God.

Mark 4:19
…and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

People are following teaching that itches their ears.

Luke 1:53
He has filled the hungry with good things, And the rich He has sent away empty.

Luke 6:24
But woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation.

Luke 8:14
Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

Luke 12:15
And He said to them, “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses.”

Luke 14:33
So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

Luke 16:19-25
(19) “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. (20) But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, (21) desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. (22) So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. (23) And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (24) Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ (25) But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

Everytime there’s a bad guy it seems to be a rich man.

Luke 19:2
Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich.

Luke 21:1-4
(1) And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, (2) and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. (3) So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; (4) for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”

The Beatitudes in Matthew 5:1-12 are often quoted and well loved. An interesting omission from them is that they do not mention anything about “things” or money. There is no “blessed are you if you have lots of money”.

Matthew 5:1-12
(1) And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. (2) Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:

(3) “Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (4) Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted. (5) Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth. (6) Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled. (7) Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy. (8) Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God. (9) Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God. (10) Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (11) “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. (12) Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Watch out for a different Jesus or Gospel or Spirit.

2 Cor 11:4
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted–you may well put up with it!

The phrase “you may well put up with it” is in effect saying “you may as well put up with it”. This is made clearer in verse 20 where it says, “For you put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face.”

Galatians 1:6-9
(6) I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, (7) which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. (8) But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. (9) As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ “

A misused verse
Some have used 3 John 1:2 as a verse to indicate that God wants us to prosper financially. Here John writes that we may prosper in all things. The word “prosper” here is Euodoo in the Greek. This comes from Eu which means good or well, and Hodos which means road, progress and/or journey. So this combined word means, to be in good health on your journey. This is highlighted by reading the same word translated in Romans 1:10 as “find a way”.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.

Rom 1:10
making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you.

1 Tim 6:5-12

Lk 15:12 Prodigal son – “give me!” (proverbs)

Act 8:15 give me!

Ps 106:15

2 Kings 5:1-27 Naaman seeks healing from Leprosy

We must seek God – not man. Jesus – not miracles.

Ezek 34:1-10

1 Tim 3:1-8

Vision: Cattle herded without any skin on them. Raw and bleeding they walked past. God said that this is His church, this is what has been done to them.

Tit 1:10-11

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Long horn sermons – a point here, a point there and a lot of bull inbetween.

A Brief History on Jim Baker
Convicted of crimes while running a huge evangelistic ministry, Jim Baker spent a number of years in jail. It was during this time that he came to realise this was not God’s punishment but rather His mercy.

These years were the sweetest years of his life, says Jim. He wrote down everything that Jesus spoke in the Bible, abbreviating it into short sentences that still conveyed the main theme of the passage where possible, and then memorised it all. “It was only then that I began to realise just how wrong I was.” It was during these years that he came to realise just how wrong he was, how wrong his teachings on financial prosperity were, and how shallow his relationship was with God. During these years he came to know God in a completely new way.

When I saw Jim Baker on the video he was a different man, a broken man. He presented only the Bible and stayed away from teaching on his ideas or thoughts. He was passionate only about one thing, and that was for people to know God more.

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What am I doing?

This is a pretty strong poem that I wrote some time ago. Normally I write stuff that rhymes, but this time I was experimenting with another style. It didn’t work out so well, but the resulting thoughts still hold true. It was not written to offend, but rather as a reflection on how I was and where I came from. It is here, not for its poetic mastery, but because the words are still just as powerful, and just as true.

Here inside these four old walls
I listen to a preacher preach up a storm
He rants and raves and carries on
But although I agree, what am I doing?

Meanwhile outside people are starving
Homeless wander past while we blare out worship songs
Claiming that we love our saviour Jesus
But proclaiming Him only to the heavens above

People freezing without clothes to their name
But I am here all cozy warm
My bottom pampered by some plush seat
My shoes resting on luxurious carpet

What am I doing, what do I believe
That Jesus can do it all without me
Why do I sit here, why do I sing
When all that I am is a white washed tomb

Where is the truth to all I proclaim
My faith is not more than an empty gong
Fooled to consider I am secure in salvation
When my actions are directing me straight down to hell

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What’s This About Martin Luther?

Well I have read a lot of writings on the church history and essays too. I am no professor, only a pleb going about my daily business with an interest in the things of God, but I think I may have hit upon one of the best writings about the history of Martin Luther.

Now if you don’t know anything about him, do not dispair, for all will be revealed if you journey along and read this article (now deleted), written by the 16 year old daughter of the “Real Live Preacher“, a site I found by browsing domain names… you know… when you punch in something like 2b.com or zzz.com etc.

So anyway, in reading this guy’s website I happen upon a reference to this history article by his daughter. It is fresh, unconceited, honest, and fun to read. Best of all, it is a joy to read something written without pretense. Good on her. I loved it. Check it out. You will be sure to enjoy it too.

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A Faith Revolution Is Redefining “Church”

It seems that more and more Christians are not going to church anymore. They still love and serve God but church seems to be irrelevant. I have been one of these, although I still go to church, I find it mostly a routine. There has been a buzz lately about some new research that has pointed to a lot of people feeling the same way as this. After going to the Barna Group website who were the researchers, I found the main story about it all, which will soon be published. The findings are interesting.

A Faith Revolution Is Redefining “Church,” According to New Study
October 10, 2005

(Ventura, CA) – For decades the primary way that Americans have experienced and expressed their faith has been through a local church. That reality is rapidly changing, according to researcher George Barna, whose new book on the transitioning nature of America’s spirituality, entitled Revolution, describes what he believes will be the most massive reshaping of the nation’s faith community in more than a century.

Growth of A New Church
Relying upon national research conducted over the past several years, Barna profiles a group of more than 20 million adults throughout the nation labeled “revolutionaries.” He noted that although measures of traditional church participation in activities such as worship attendance, Sunday school, prayer, and Bible reading have remained relatively unchanged during the past twenty years, the Revolutionary faith movement is growing rapidly.

“These are people who are less interested in attending church than in being the church,” he explained. “We found that there is a significant distinction in the minds of many people between the local church – with a small ‘c’ – and the universal Church – with a capital ‘C’. Revolutionaries tend to be more focused on being the Church, capital C, whether they participate in a congregational church or not.”

“A common misconception about revolutionaries,” he continued, “is that they are disengaging from God when they leave a local church.

Continue reading “A Faith Revolution Is Redefining “Church””

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I Don’t Want to Be Like Them

While browsing around on the Internet, I came across a website called PostSecret where people can send in a secret that they have never told anyone via postcards. There is some sad stuff there, but this card was the one that impacted me the most. The sad thing is that in a lot of ways he is right.

It is really sad that there are so many people calling themselves Christian and yet do not seem to live in any way that is attractive to others. If Christ attracted multitudes with his life, and we are repelling them with our life there must be a massive discrepancy between the two. Perhaps we are not even Christians… after all, shouldn’t a Christ-ian be just that… a “little Christ”? So where is the similarity between the two???

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Quotes to make you think

I put this up on my main blog at Rob’s Rave, but thought it worthwhile putting here too… (NB: what was two separate blogs are now merged as one)

While travelling around the web I ran into a few quotes that I thought were interesting enough to save because they make you think:

  • Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. – St. Francis of Assisi
  • Is god willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god? – Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
  • There are two kinds of people: those who say to God: Thy will be done, and those to whom God says: All right, then, have it your way. – C.S. Lewis
  • When you speak of heaven, let your face light up; let it be irradiated by a heavenly gleam; let your eyes shine with reflected glory. But when you speak of hell, your ordinary expression will do. – Charles Spurgeon
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Uninvolved Commitment

In church the other day, I started looking around at those that were there. The service continued.

The pastor spoke and gave a prayer. Another person, known to be associated with the activities of the church, stood up to speak about the meetings and activities happening for the week. The singers led everybody in worship, and the musicians provided the music.

All the while that this happened, the people sitting down listened, sang, and bowed their heads at the appropriate moments. They were all very polite through the whole proceedings, as the delegated few continued their activities in running the whole service. The thing was that they just never really got involved. They simply sat there the whole time. Passive receivers.

Continue reading “Uninvolved Commitment”

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Old Thoughts Revisited

I wrote this comment on the church back in May 2004. It was how I was feeling then, and it is still how I feel now (note, this was originally written on a completely different blog but they are the same blog now):

I am at a loss. Everything in me wants to fellowship with other people, but nothing in me wants to go to a church. I am not against churches however, it is just that I cannot continue to perform this ritual. It is empty and lifeless to me. The people in the church give the place life and help me through each service, and it is wonderful chatting with them afterwards, but why do I have to endure the service so that I can enjoy this?

Am I such a “bad Christian” for talking like this? No. I am simply one that seeks God and wants life in each meeting. A place where people can grow, and where they can share. This does not mean homegroups to me either. Most of the homegroups that I have attended have simply been “mini-church” based in the home. There has been as little life in these as there is in the big church.

So what is the answer? How I desire to know this too. Every time I read the Bible I search for something that will help me to find this answer, something that will give me a clue to this. My desire is to find something that brings about lasting change.

Many people that have been “saved” have only said the magic words and there seems to be no lasting change. Unfortunately I have been a first-hand witness to this process and even championed it at one point. Discipleship seems to be a forgotten responsibility. Repentance and baptism too seem to have faded over the years and yet these were the very things, in fact the only things, that Jesus and the disciples commanded people to do to be saved.

So where is the life, the lasting change? In the Word, all I can find is that people lived what they wrote about. People honoured their father and mother, they visited the sick and those in jail, they pooled their resources to help the widows and the orphans, and they came together to fellowship and encourage each other.

So does this mean we start a new missions movement to start caring for and visiting these people? No, most definitely not. Since when should we delegate responsibility yet again to those few who are willing? What change needs to take place in our lives so that we too become the willing.

After travelling through a number of countries recently I am shocked at how people can line up for an hour to enter a church and pack it full to hear God’s Word spoken, and then as they leave the building, ignore people begging by the entrance, and step over homeless people sleeping on the sidewalk less than one block away. This should not be!

All of these things converge to the point that says we need a new wineskin. The guests at the wedding will get the best wine last, and it is not found in our conventional churches.

I seek to find followers of Christ who are passionate and motivated, who encourage and disciple others as they too are encouraged and discipled. Times of gathering where each person can share, question, and learn. How different this would be. How wonderful. This is the “church” that I want to attend.

Unrealistic? It depends on your perspective. “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Why would this not be if we were all passionate about Christ and the absolutes of the Bible? I believe the time for change has come. We need change, and I for one am willing to do what it takes to see this become reality.